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[ChuckTrukk]

I was checking around the net and was pointed to http://www.codeigniter.com. It seems to provide a MODx type framework without a manager. It looks to provide the tools to build the manager, etc.

1. I was wondering if anyone here has seen this, experienced this, or has any thoughts on it.

2. The Calendar class and some of the other classes seem like a good idea to me for MODx additions. (Seems similar Jason's MakeTable and the new Doc classes recently provided).

Just wanted to know what your thoughts on this were.

Chuck

[OpenGeek]

@Chuck

CodeIgniter is indeed the best of the PHP frameworks I've yet seen, at least of the ones that work in PHP 4, and it's definitely high on what many would consider a competitor's list for the next generation MODx.  It's possible that CodeIgniter add-on's could be made for MODx, but I have not yet attempted to do so.

That said, IMO, the major strength of MODx is the simple templating model that has been employed.  I would go so far as to say that, as a pure PHP application framework CodeIgniter is a bit more robust and mature than MODx is at this time.  However, I truly believe the new core for MODx 1.0 will change this dramatically by combining the proven MODx templating model with a new, ultra-light object-oriented framework that will make porting and optimizing MODx for other db platforms a breeze, and will provide a more powerful and consistent API that, combined with a variety of other new features, will mean even more improvements in extensibility (with no need for hacks at all).

Does this mean that CodeIgniter and MODx can not co-exist?  Absolutely not..  Ultimately, the rewritten MODx framework focuses on what it does best, managing content, be it static or dynamic, and better organizes the core into logical, independent modules.  This will make it much easier to integrate MODx with a multitude of other PHP applications, frameworks, libraries, etc. by delegation.  Think of using CodeIgniter, or Zend Framework, or or a set of custom PHP pages, and managing it all in MODx.  And by applying a few key object-oriented patterns to the MODx code, it will make accessing and using the MODx API (including the template parser) inside other systems not only practical, but even efficient.  For example, you could write a simple WordPress plugin that could render a menu generated by a MODx snippet.

[PaulGregory]

I was checking around the net and was pointed to http://www.codeigniter.com. It seems to provide a MODx type framework without a manager. It looks to provide the tools to build the manager, etc.

It does look like a decent PHP Application framework, but without the manager and without what I'd term a "website management framework", it just doesn't do it for me.

I cannot imagine ever building a web-based application that wasn't part of a website (even if it was just help pages for the application), and so I'm always going to be better off with something that has CMS functionality rather than reinventing that wheel.

Sure, there are parts of the MODx manager that I'd write differently - but MODx doesn't particularly stop me. I'd much rather create a custom management interface from the position of Having A Standard Manager rather than Not Having Any Manager.

But yeah, as Jason says - using both is highly doable.

Their CI vs Drupal thread is interesting. From this I can see the difference clearly:

MODx is a PHP application framework packaged as a fully functioning CMS.
Code Igniter is a PHP application framework.

Which would be fine, but it seems that a few people are using CI to create their own CMS, which just seems daft to me.

I've not watched it, but I see they have a video demo called "Create a Blog in 20 Minutes". Perhaps we should have a video called "Create a Blog in 2 Minutes".

[smartalec]

CakePHP has gotten a lot of good press recently, too, as a PHP framework. I personally would imagine that integrating CI or Cake with MODx would be a nightmare of API spaghetti. But what the hell do I know. Seems like you could build something like MODx with CI or Cake, but once you've got MODx, using CI or Cake would be a moot point. But what the hell do I know.

[OpenGeek]

CakePHP has gotten a lot of good press recently, too, as a PHP framework. I personally would imagine that integrating CI or Cake with MODx would be a nightmare of API spaghetti. But what the hell do I know. Seems like you could build something like MODx with CI or Cake, but once you've got MODx, using CI or Cake would be a moot point. But what the hell do I know.

I don't believe it's moot at all.  In fact I'd say our ability to adapt to this is essential to the project's long-term viability.

You familiar with http://www.martinfowler.com/ ?  Or ever studied any of these patterns -- http://eaipatterns.com/ -- ?  EAI was my life for several years, so I have studied these and the rewrite that is in progress is based on solid, proven design patterns that make the implementation of more advanced patterns for application integration, well, a piece of cake (not to steal anyone's marketing hype).  MODx, as a content manager, stands on perfect ground to become a central point of web application integration by following these concepts, and as such, can further extend its reach into medium and larger-sized businesses, where application integration efforts are much more costly and complicated.

Here are some more high-level links to the concepts I am talking about when I indicate that MODx can, as a content management framework, co-exist with and delegate to external frameworks, libraries, or existing applications:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_application_integration (general discussion)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_services (the focus of most current EAI efforts and a big part of the new architecture)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_Content_Integration (emerging EAI focus where MODx can truly excel)

[smartalec]

Cool. I'm so happy there are smarter people than me out there!

[williscool]

so long story short cake php and code igniter are modx, though maybe a little more mature and robust, minus the pre-fab/ standard manager ?

edit:

so long story short cake php and code igniter are modx, though maybe ? a little more mature and robust, minus the pre-fab/ standard manager ?

[rthrash]

Why do you say that, particularly about the robust part?

[williscool]

Why do you say that, particularly about the robust part?

because opengeek did

@Chuck...

That said, IMO, the major strength of MODx is the simple templating model that has been employed.  I would go so far as to say that, as a pure PHP application framework CodeIgniter is a bit more robust and mature than MODx is at this time.  However, I truly believe the new core for MODx 1.0 will change this dramatically ...

I honestly don't know who is where. I have never explored either deep enough to know (cake or codeigniter). I just found modx and it was everything I could have ever asked. Its like a really good girlfriend. When you have a good one you just don't feel the need to look around at other girls.

I was just posing a question for claification.

I'm about to go to a meeting tonight with the Georgia Entreprenuer's Society because they are a good resource to help me get my business off of the ground

http://www.gesnow.com/

and a company by the name of shift 90 http://www.shift90.com/ is in the group makes their website and they are looking to redesign and they are looking at codeIgniter for the platform

I was thinking of evangelizing modx to them whether or not they decide to use it but I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about.

so i did a search and found this topic and decided to ask the question for clarification.

in my opinion modx has more going for it than codeigniter it just seems like codeigniter, in terms of application framework, is a bit further along than modx.

I could be wrong though so I'm asking.

i've edited my question to be more clear

[sirlancelot]

I've not watched it, but I see they have a video demo called "Create a Blog in 20 Minutes". Perhaps we should have a video called "Create a Blog in 2 Minutes".

lol!

It's all about how fast someone can read this article

[seventhapex]

if you use the blog tutorial along side the newsletter and ditto snippets you've got a pretty nice archiving newsletter system in about 20 minutes. Pretty good turnout rate and then modx makes it easier to template/style

[gags]

Hello MODxers,

I have not used MODx yet, I am here doing research on your project and have registered to try to add to this conversation about Code Igniter.

CodeIgniter is indeed the best of the PHP frameworks I've yet seen, at least of the ones that work in PHP 4, and it's definitely high on what many would consider a competitor's list for the next generation MODx.  It's possible that CodeIgniter add-on's could be made for MODx, but I have not yet attempted to do so.

CI absolutely rocks.  For the size and types of projects that I imagine PHP being used for most often CI offers an easy to learn and use methodology that if you are paying attention, helps you improve your code.  It has not helped us develop faster however the projects we produce have more features, for example - sophisticated error logging,  than they did before.  We are also beginning to realise the niceties of good code reuse and other goodness that I would attribute to the ethos that CI brought with it.

My first question when hearing about MODx was, will it co-operate with CI?

....but it seems that a few people are using CI to create their own CMS, which just seems daft to me.

We are currently developing a CMS site, with a small amount of web application pages, using Joomla!  The web application pages were so difficult to quickly implement.  Things that would take 1 day in CI took longer than a week!!  This leads people to asking would it not be easier to build a basic CMS in CI than make applications functionality work in Joomla!

In my mind this situation is crazy, never mind the utter lawlessness of the resultant code spewed out just to try and get the project to the client in time.

Think of using CodeIgniter, or Zend Framework, or or a set of custom PHP pages, and managing it all in MODx.  And by applying a few key object-oriented patterns to the MODx code, it will make accessing and using the MODx API (including the template parser) inside other systems not only practical, but even efficient.  For example, you could write a simple WordPress plugin that could render a menu generated by a MODx snippet.

For this reason I am quite excited about your project.  It seems to be placing itself exactly where something is needed.  I am a Director of a web development firm, and from a business perspective do not want to discard all of the CI libraries we have built and have the team take on yet another learning curve.  The best case scenario for us would be to use something like MODx than develop our own CMS. 

Watching, and reading, and hacking away with great interest.

Gags

[Xsss4hell]

OpenGeek already pointed out that Code Igniter is very robust and yes more stable at the moment than modx.
But that's not an argument, since Code Igniter needed years to become that stable and MODx is a new born child in comparison.

I already posted a link to Code Igniter in one of my post last month, because I found it quite useful for the "web-beeing".
Fact is that Code Igniter is a tool, just as MODx.
And it one tool can save work for another tool right?
That's the point!
You can use Code Igniter for MODx purposes, so they don't exclude each other.

For the fast readers, Code Igniter is a FRAMEWORK just as MODx is and frameworks can coexist.
Every Framework has it's bad or good side. So use one CMF for this and the other for that part of a job.

Don't ask what CMF is better. If you read everything you already know =)
Isn't it obvious