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[kongondo]

OK, don't shoot the messenger please!

I found this article Why Web Developers Don’t Need A Mac thought provoking...

It is in response to this piece

Five Reasons Why Designers Developers are Switching to Mac

Total Disclosure:

I don't own a Mac neither can I afford one! 

[Everett]

I think commenting on the original article is like getting into a flame war on YouTube.  I'm not convinced by that article... everything touted on the Windows side is nearly equally available on the Mac side.  While doing coding/web dev @ an office on a Windows PC, I timed how much time I wasted each day just waiting for the OS (e.g. if one window of the browser froze up or was busy, I couldn't get to the desktop, crashes, etc. ).  The results? Each work day I wasted somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes.  On the Mac, it was less than half that, usually closer to 10 minutes of wait time.

I agree to a point that the OS is a means to an end, but Windows seems to get in the way of my work, and I truly hate that OS and for whatever reason, that just seems to be the way I'm wired: it just simply doesn't compute in my brain why on earth someone would *want* to use Windows... but I have to respect that that's EXACTLY how some folks feel about Macs (and that's how some folks feel about religion, George W., etc).  I don't understand it... I just know those feelings are there inside everybody.

So, the cliche holds true: to each, their own.

[markhurd]

I grudgingly started working on a Mac a few years ago and now I just can't stand to do any work on my PC.  It's great for other stuff, but my overall development workflow is so much quicker on the Mac.  TextMate alone is a reason to switch IMHO. The article lists Notepad++, which is great (it's the default editor on my PC), but it doesn't even begin to compare to TextMate.

[therebechips]

For windows users hankering after a Textmate clone there's always E-text editor:
http://www.e-texteditor.com/

Works just like the Mac version

[mrhaw]

Awesome thread!!   

[kongondo]

I think Everett has aptly summed it:

the cliche holds true: to each, their own.

[Photowebmax]

I have used many PC's and Mac's at work and now at my home based business. I am very much a Mac guy.

My main business is photography and Photoshop is my number one tool. Working with color has always been easier on the Mac.

One thing I have always noticed though: if you are spending hours editing text or code the actual on screen text always looks sharper and cleaner, thus easier on the eyes, with Apple's OSX than any version of Windows I have ever tried.

Max

[cipa]

I used Windows almost all my life. From time to time I tried Linux(mostly Ubuntu) but the lack of photoshop/drivers/flash player made me install Windows again.

Two years ago I was hired by a company who had only an iMac available. I didn't like it a lot at the beginning. Didn't know a lot about the system(i didn't know it was based on *nix either). The only programs I knew where photoshop and dreamweaver.   
I still ran Windows Xp, Vista and Linux at home.

Today I only have Ubuntu at home and Mac at work. I will not go back to windows unless I have to. Vista gave me headaches and I had to upgrade my laptop to only have a nice browsing experience. Xp had it's problems too: I personally had to do a reinstall it every 6 months or so. Also who wants to run a 7 years old OS?

Today there is nothing for me on Windows. I would completely switch to Linux but I need Photoshop and Coda just helps a lot when coding.

I hate the pricing for Macs but I do consider them the best laptops out there. I prefer to pay 500$ more for a mac than to buy a D*ll or similar.

Now I'm looking to buy the new MacBook Pro and triple boot with Linux Mint/Ubuntu and Windows.
I plan to only use Linux Mint or Ubuntu and have Windows Xp installed virtually so I can use photoshop and test in IE.

Cheers

[zi]

Guys, give 7 a try.

[cipa]

Guys, give 7 a try.

I do not want to be mean but why should I try it?
I've read all the reviews of the beta and I was not convinced. I even played with it a bit and I was not impressed.

[kongondo]

I'm giving W7 a try right now on my laptop and I am very impressed! It is fast, it sleek....

ASIDE:

Anyways, check out this new HP TouchSmart Notebook

[davidm]

I installed W7 on my netbook just for kicks and I must say it's not that bad (though it seems Windows is nowhere near handling sleep or hibernate any good yet... OS X is so much better on this that it's not believable)... I might or might not go for Moblin when they get screen brightness adjustment or media player to work (though I have only tested a live image, might explain the issues). I might give a shot at turning my Samsung N310 into a hackintosh (yeah Apple, release a NetBook already !), I really can't imagine working with anything but OS X I am spoiled !

About the article, I think it's a pure reaction to the Apple trend in the dev / designer communities, and true there are dev environnement or design apps for Windoze but you can't beat OS X user experience or stability compared to windows... IMHO.

[BobRay]

I've never owned or used a Mac but my last laptop purchase might have been a MacBook if they made one with a big enough screen.  I needed a giant-screen laptop and ended up with the HP HDX 20" dragon (3 Gig of memory and almost completely silent).  I've been really happy with it although I'm sure I'd have liked a Mas just as well.

As for TextMate being missing on the PC, PhpED is missing on the Mac. I'd have a hard time living without it.

My brother has worked with both Macs and PCs for many years. He says he has no preference (although he did choose a MacBook for his home computer).

My only quarrel with the Mac community is that some of them are unbelievably smug and self-satisfied about being Mac users and quite rude about the alternatives (present company excepted, of course).

When I'm not using a web browser, I'm either in MS Word, or PhpEd and my computer has never frozen or crashed that I can recall so it's hard to justify the extra expense of the Mac for me.

Chacon à son goût, as they like to say in any country where they speak French. 

[splittingred]

I switched from PCs to Macs three years ago. I have been in the development world, mostly, and was doing programming on PCs for over a decade.

That said, now I wished I would have switched sooner. But not for web development reasons.

(warning: generalities follow)

PCs are wonderful for gaming and native programming. They are easily customized (my PC desktop I have here is custom-built) and quite flexible hardware-wise. They tend to work better with backwards compatibility. There's also a vastly higher number of software products out there. And, they're cheap.

However, they are awful for security; easily hacked, and loose network security. Viruses, trojans and spam runs rampant on PCs. They are a nightmare for Audio/Media work and anything requiring 'drivers' (I do sound engineering/recording and would never, ever do anything on a PC). Vista is, well, beyond comment. They are often twitchy with USB devices.

Macs are excellently built; their design is sleek, the branding top-notch, and the OS is probably the best OS on the market (yes, including Linux, because Linux OSes tend to not be user-friendly, and that's a category worth considering). Macs work with nearly anything plug-n-play, instantly. There are virtually no viruses to worry about. Their built-in open source technologies (although the PHP4 version still makes me shake my head) are steps in the right direction. They have properly built network interfaces with sound sharing principles. And no one's said...you can run a PC on a Mac. Uh, trump card.

(And Cocoa is an amazing programming language.)

Macs, however, are expensive. Customizing the hardware is, well, nearly impossible. OS X isn't informative enough when it crashes (although that, admittedly, is rare). Gaming on them is foolish. Software, until this past 2-3 years really, was sparse. And good luck if you dont have a warranty.

That said, there is virtually no difference for Web Developers. All the necessary tools for webdev found on the PC can be found on the Mac, and vice versa. Each performs well, XAMPP or MAMP. All the browsers (minus Chrome, soon to change) can be found. Photoshop can be found on either.

So I feel that the Mac/PC argument for specifically web dev/designers is, well, silly. Now if you're an audio engineer, then we can talk... 

[mrhaw]

Guys, give 7 a try.

The problem with Vista was mainly it required too much of a computer (as do the games). MS and game developers are
teamed up with hardware manufacturers to always raise the bar. This evolution is why Mac became a PC running on Intel.

I'm running Vista on computers with minimum 3 Gb working memory, less then that, it sucks. So all laptops
with less than 3 Gb ram should use XP or Linux.

With the indexing service gone through all your files and backup routines set up (the best security there is), Vista
is my favorite OS ever.

But I did recommend my boss to get a Mac because if you don't know much about computers, don't have a interest in
upgrading your hardware and overclocking and simply just want to be a end-user of the computer itself. Mac is a nice
product.

Win 7... http://bit.ly/15mtuc !! Maybe later... 

[BobRay]

Here's another data point. My mother, who is in her 80s (and then some), recently switched from a Mac to a PC. She knows next to nothing about computers and uses hers just for email and internet access.She kept having trouble with her provider (Comcast) and her ISP.  The trouble mostly involved pilot error on her part, but whenever she would call tech support, they would tell her they didn't really know anything about Macs.

I didn't advise her to switch, in fact I liked having her on a Mac because then my brother handled her tech support. 

[AMDbuilder]

Good reading!  I will give macs credit they do two things very well, but they also do things wrong (as does anything...).  Macs (Well Apple products) always seam to be very user friendly, and they are almost always well designed.  I will say I have never cared for macs, but this could be due to the fact my mac experience has been limited to classroom macs that could be confused for virus filled PCs.  They have their place in the computing world and they are a decent option to Windows.  I know the release of Vista really enlightened people to a lot of the problems with Windows namely the fact people buy the cheapest PC they can find and then complain when it's not future ready.

There are two thing that have always surprised me tho..
- Why do people who visit XXX rated websites wonder when their computer dies
- Why are the Genus bar lines always out the door?  I though their products were bullet proof?

AMDbuilder

(Live from a 6 year old PC with a 3 year old XP install charging an iPhone (The one Apple product I LOVE!)  )

[BobRay]

I love my iPod Touch, but iTunes is one of the least intuitive apps I've ever used and the documentation is truly horrible. IMHO.

Maybe there's something I'm missing (there often is), but why can't I import a file or folder that's not in the iTunes folder and why should I have to import a file or folder that *already in* the #$%#$%#% iTunes folder? And, given that scenario, what exactly would "Export" mean? And why doesn't the iPod show in My Computer when it's attached?

The iPod Touch isn't all that intuitive for me either. I'm constantly struggling to make it play or stop playing what I want. And it seems determined to keep me from getting back to where I was before without going back to the desktop. I still haven't figured out how to browse through my music collection without ending up somewhere I don't want to be with no obvious way to backtrack.

[AMDbuilder]

Yea, iTunes is getting a little bloated and stupid...  Why can't I have a central iTunes repository (Files stored on server vs computer(s)...

Anyways...  If you double tap the home button when ipod is sleeping you can control the music (pause/play, next, prev, volume) and in the settings you can change the home button function.  I click it once it goes to desktop, second time to first page, three times fast phone contacts...  Check your settings and see if that helps some.  If not try a Genius?

AMDbuilder

[BobRay]

Yea, iTunes is getting a little bloated and stupid...  Why can't I have a central iTunes repository (Files stored on server vs computer(s)...

Anyways...  If you double tap the home button when ipod is sleeping you can control the music (pause/play, next, prev, volume) and in the settings you can change the home button function.  I click it once it goes to desktop, second time to first page, three times fast phone contacts...  Check your settings and see if that helps some.  If not try a Genius?

AMDbuilder

Nice tip, thanks. 

[sottwell]

I must say that my last windows machine, a Compaq notebook, ran Windows98 and then 2000 for over five years without a whimper. I sold it and last I heard it was still going strong. It came with ME, but since it wouldn't let me install my PCMCIA network card drivers I dumped it immediately for 98. It did everything I wanted it to do; that's the machine I learned PHP and web development in general on. I ran the BadBlue web server.  I love the smooth Mac interface, and it's always just been prettier than Windows (at least until recently, I understand - although I've actually never seen Vista or 7), but it's looking more and more like I'll end up replacing this 14" iBook with a Windows machine. I think I'll wait until 7 is out, though. Unless I get a MacBook Air first...

[coffee_bean]

Much like many here, I ventured into the mac world reading a list of nice ideals (most importantly, the consistency of everything) but wondering whether this learning curve was going to end in tears, scared that I'd find that all operating systems are alike.

It wasn't true. I love working on a mac and find going back to windows slightly distressing, as it almost gets in the way of work. Not looking at individual details, but just abstractly, I now know why. Once you learn Cmd-Q, it always works, as do almost all other key shortcuts for every program running. The user interface is tidy and still functional, I can find what I want quickly, and things work as I'd expect them to.

Now let me be clear, I'm definitely a geek. I love making computers do what wasn't intended, I program in many languages and have used linux and unix for years. Here's why my home machine is a mac: When I want to do either work or liesure, the mac aids it without me even noticing. I don't have to argue to do simple jobs. I get fancy graphics with no performance hit, the internet just works, as does sharing, and everything else. When I want to play, I get another box and put windows back on or linux.

The key is that Apple doesn't sell you an OS, which runs on whatever elastic bands you have lying around. They sell you a product, a platform. You are obliged to buy their configured, optimised, tried and tested hardware and yes, it's expensive, but that's because it's top of the range and guaranteed to work. Plus it's quiet and looks good. The flexibility isn't there, or the ability to play, but there's a sturdiness that only designing an OS for a specific set of hardware can bring. And that's why, for me personally, I am pretty Apple dedicated.

HOWEVER. I have tried Windows 7 and am very impressed by it. I'll always buy a mac as my main computer, especially as it is rather the hub of my digital life (apple tv, ipod, iphone, you name it) but I have a laptop for my portable work - a £400 dell machine. It flies with Windows 7, the task bar is usable, things seem smooth and stable and nothing yet has hung for no reason. It had good drivers for all my hardware (in an RC!), where Vista required me to download them all myself. I'm still looking for a Coda equivalent for it, but everything else I can do as easily on both. In short, I think any Windows users who were not converted before will not find many reasons to convert after getting 7.

[dev_cw]

I have had a mac forever...started with the apple II way back in elementary school. I had a PC once, only because at the time it was a hassle to run a server on Mac and I was coding in VB (!?!?!?), but once macs went the unix way and I migrated to php there has not been any reason to get a PC again. If I needed to I could be very happy on a PC...but why would I if I could use a mac and be happier. I am a true mac addict, it just works for me.

IMHO there used to be more of a difference. Now it is simply a matter of preference...neither one is better than the other..both will get the job done. 

[einsteinsboi]

Interesting discussion, at least I feel a little safer posting here than at other places in the mac vs. pc discussion... people are a lot nicer in the MODx world  .

I'm a PC user, always have been. I have a HP Pavilion Elite desktop, and as far as laptops go I swear by Thinkpads and won't buy anything else .  I currently own a Lenovo  T500 Thinkpad as well as an IBM T43P Thinkpad.  I know Windows OS has it's issues (and I've experienced most of them) but I can't seem to get into using Macs. I've been living with Mac lovers for a few years now and so I have unlimited access to Macbooks, IMACs, etc, and actually used a macbook exclusively for a few months while i was repairing my Thinkpad.  In addition, I am the resident expert so I get to troubleshoot and help with all things mac related... lol

Here are my thoughts, both Macs and PCs have their niche and do their job.  I've surmised after a lot of reading and experimenting that it comes down to personal preference and what you use your computer for. I'm primarily a coder, not a designer. I work with several languages as well as needing to run mathematical modeling software (MAPLE, Mathcad, Matlab, Fortran, etc), as well as using programs like Labview, and I also work with Visual Basic and the .NET framework. Additionally, I like to open my PC and tinker with the hardware.  In recent times I've been dual booting Windows with Linux (mostly Fedora) on all my machines because I'm trying to migrate to being (almost) completely open source oriented in the tools I use for most things.

For these reasons, and just as a matter of personal preference, a Mac just doesn't appeal to me. I have to say though that the new unibody macbooks are sexy!!  I think now that I seem to be drifting a lot into web dev and a little into design I might just give macs another try but I honestly don't think I can ever migrate fully to macs. I am completely totally addicted to PCs 

[rthrash]

Just triple boot your Macs. It's all Intel hardware after all.

[coffee_bean]

lol true! I did it, and then felt guilty, apologised to it, and made it pure again.

I did note that W7 properly supports EFI now btw.

[BobRay]

lol true! I did it, and then felt guilty, apologised to it, and made it pure again.

I did note that W7 properly supports EFI now btw.

I believe Vista x64 does as well.

[AMDbuilder]

Windows 7 is based off Windows Vista so quite a few of the features in 7 will be found in Vista.  I believe EFI is one of those features.  In general 7 is a much more improved version of Vista with lower system requirements, and more software compatability.  Yes, some programs that hated Vista work in 7!  All I know is the virtual machine testing I have done with 512mb of memory have been rather impressive, if only my native rig didn't die, but that's what I get for using a busted computer 

[davidm]

Yes Windows 7 is much less of a resource hog, it runs as fast as XP on my netbook (Atom 1.6Ghz 1GB RAM). Aside from that, most improvement is focused on usability though there is nothing really spectacular (yeah of course I am an OS X user so...).