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[stupid]

I like the setup here, is MODx better then joomla or mambo ?

also i notice you use smf is this built into modx as a plugin or is it a standalone

modx vs joomla pros/cons ? ?

[Mark]

It all depends what you use MODx for. If you are building a portal site, then Joomla or Mambo might be better. But, if you are doing a site where you want to have control over the design and code output, MODx is for you.

SMF is installed separately and a module bridges the two logins and user bases (still not released)

I believe someone wrote a MODx vs Joomla article...... anyone wan't to claim it?

[Duane]

I've used both, and if you're interested here's my take on the advantages of MODx over Joomla:

http://modxcms.com/forums/index.php/topic,1329.msg22592.html#msg22592

Duane

[stupid]

how would you define a portal site vs a site where we have more control over design and code

can't you do that with a portal as well ?

[MadeMyDay]

I believe someone wrote a MODx vs Joomla article...... anyone wan't to claim it?

Erm, yes. I also wrote something on my test-install of modx.  Have to look where I have these (few) articles

[Duane]

how would you define a portal site vs a site where we have more control over design and code

can't you do that with a portal as well ?

I won't try to speak for Mark, but Joomla *does* try to force you into a multi-columnar design that is primarily a display page for articles, news stories, links and user login. If you are doing a portal type of site, like Yahoo, that structure and conceptual framework is great.

But, if you're doing a site that doesn't fit that columnar layout, you'll be fighting Joomla's nature. Most companies do not want to see a row of columns with "stories" stacked inside. They want a more "organic" sort of look that has eye appeal beyond just colors and the header.

MODx doesn't fight me when I have an unusual layout. It just accepts my xhtml/css and smiles.

That's the difference, as far as I'm concerned.

Duane

[MadeMyDay]

Additionally, Joomla doesn´t separate code and design.

Little example: If you take a usual (news-)article, you usually should be able to define where your pieces of output are (Like title itself, created on, created by, changed, print etc.). In modx you can define what you like in your template like

<div class="author">written by [*author*] on [*date*]</div>
<h1>[*pagetitle*]</h1>
[*content*]
<hr>

whereas in Joomla you ALWAYS have it like this:

<table>
<tr>
<td class="contentheading">YOUR TITLE</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="createdate">13.03.06</td>
</tr>
...
and so on. No flexibility even at the core functionalities like displaying news...

If you´d like to have a mainly content driven site with not so big eyes on individual designing and the output is okay for you (that is e.g. a portal site), then joomla can be okay for you. With all the community stuff (PM, Forum, Downlad components etc.) it´s easy to expand without any knowledge of PHP, HTML and CSS. But the result is often not satisfying because of the lack of consistency. All these extensions are also possible with modx, but here you have less out-of-the-box solutions, you rather have to put them together for your needs.

Greetz Marc

[Djamoer]

Here is my 0.02 cents,

The big difference is on the design. There is a give and take in here.
In MODx, you have greater control over design, but you cannot get all the fancy features such as blog and bla2 to be setup easily.
In Joomla, you have almost no control over design (unless you're a css master), but you have all those fancy ceatures available that you can easily installed them on your site.

So if you're a designer or advanced user, I might suggest you to try out MODx, but if you just want to get your site up and running without having to bother taking care of the design and etc, then go for Joomla.

In the end, it's all depends on your needs. But believe me, in the next few months, we will have more features/addons added to MODx, so you can just easily install and use them

[Starbuck]

I'd spent a better part of my career looking for modX - and just recently found it.

The reasons I'm drawn to it are quite simple,  valid content editable within xhtml css tableless layouts - you wouldn't believe how many client's I've come across who ask for a "table" to be put inside their 'beautiful' tableless layouts because semantic markup with css is 'too hard' for them to handle, or learn.

I mean, who else can say they've delivered valid (w3.org valid) xhtml css tableless sites to their client's only to discover a week later it's been transformed into a mutant of tables, errors, and layout components 'thumbing' rendering issues and only working on IE6!

With modX, it offers a way to deliver layouts with a very easy logical means for client's to manage content the way content inside css tableless layouts was intended to be manged -then there's layout control, performed entirely via css and markup allowing the content to exist entirely seperate and primed for any css xhtml tableless layout.

But modX doesn't stop there, it offers a lot more - chunks, snippets - the imagination runs wild!

I don't think modX is an entry level cms, but then I wouldn't call it 'just' a cms . . . nor do I think it's fair to measure joomla against it - joomla and mambo just aren't in the same league.

 

[bugsmi0]

well so far, I like what i'm hearing, however the admin manager is really something he he, not sure whats what or where to start.

the template process alone is odd in that from what i can tell you download a template with its folders filled with goodies, then you copy/past the html into new template in the admin, this is very foreign to me, whatever happen to the simple things in life like point-click-install.

the menu system is another interesting process from what I've been reading very tricky on setting up custom navigation
and snippets and chunks well that just makes my head spin lol

Modx definately has a unique way of doing things, I'm sure for the better but not easy or friendly for the user unless your a developer perhaps.

[Smoothie]

I would heartily recommend MODx as the only true CMS out there.  Its core doesn't include forums, a chatbox, or any rubbish like that - it includes exactly what you need to manage content, and it does it damn well.

If you need forums and a portal style system, I would personally go for e107.  However, I don't see the communities or futures of either e107 or Joomla as being as bright as that of MODx; I've been around the block, having gone through everything from PHP-Nuke (something I'd rather forget) to the pleasure of MODx, MODx is the only CMS I really see as being capable of handling every type of content you can throw at it.  For its purpose, MODx is simply as good as they come.

Sure, give others a go at http://opensourcecms.com , and see if you can find anything that suits your needs better.  But bear in mind where the CMS's are at and where they are going... if you're planning to run your site for anything remotely long-term, you need a CMS that will continue to be developed and supported for an equally long period of time.  This is something I can see in MODx's community more than any other.

[OpenGeek]

I would heartily recommend MODx as the only true CMS out there.  Its core doesn't include forums, a chatbox, or any rubbish like that - it includes exactly what you need to manage content, and it does it damn well.

Wow!! That's definitely going on our testimonials page.    And that's a very good summary of what MODx is.  But I also want to say, that as our early adoption period in the developer community continues, there will be more and more components that cover just as wide a spectrum as Joomla and other, more mature systems, as well as new approaches to old problems made possible by the flexiblity of the MODx core.

If you need forums and a portal style system, I would personally go for e107.  However, I don't see the communities or futures of either e107 or Joomla as being as bright as that of MODx; I've been around the block, having gone through everything from PHP-Nuke (something I'd rather forget) to the pleasure of MODx, MODx is the only CMS I really see as being capable of handling every type of content you can throw at it.  For its purpose, MODx is simply as good as they come.

Sure, give others a go at http://opensourcecms.com , and see if you can find anything that suits your needs better.  But bear in mind where the CMS's are at and where they are going... if you're planning to run your site for anything remotely long-term, you need a CMS that will continue to be developed and supported for an equally long period of time.  This is something I can see in MODx's community more than any other.

We definitely take pride in our community and see it as our strongest asset in these stages of our development.  I'm glad to see others recognizing the value this represents to everyone involved in the project.  And I'm of the same philosophy; use the right tool for the job.  I still use WordPress, PubBB, or other systems on occasion in my freelance work, usually in conjunction with MODx, but, I certainly don't see MODx as the solution for everything; not at this point anyway.
 

[bugsmi0]

I would heartily recommend MODx as the only true CMS out there.

sounds like a religious cult he he all hail the MODx god

I think in order for a CMS to be the supreme god of content managemetn, it needs to NOT (did I say NOT ? ) be taylored to developers but instead for the end user that being most of the people on the planet who are not keen on chunks, snippets and other developer nonsense 

At the very least, it should provide user-friendly STEP BY STEP (did I say STEP BY STEP ?) instructions where a user can get their site up and running in no time.

I've read the curent documentation and its modanese language and not making much sense to a moron like me

so before you start performing the Modx superiority dance get to work on some of the things mentioned, if you can do that, I'll run naked up and down the internet halls worshping the almighty Modx

[rthrash]

MODx is defintely not targeted at end users now. It's definitely more for advanced users, and people that need certain things that it enables. In due course we'll have all the little Wizards available that make things simpler.

Given that though, the fact that there are many decidedly non-developer-inclined users at this stage says a lot.

[Dr. Scotty Delicious]

I would heartily recommend MODx as the only true CMS out there.

sounds like a religious cult he he all hail the MODx god

I think in order for a CMS to be the supreme god of content managemetn, it needs to NOT (did I say NOT ? ) be taylored to developers but instead for the end user that being most of the people on the planet who are not keen on chunks, snippets and other developer nonsense 

I am sorry that you are feeling overwhelmed with all this.  MODx has a learning curve, especially if you have been using another CMS/Portal.  MODx has a very different way of doing certain things, but as you can see from the community here, a lot of folks think that way is better.  You are absolutely right, MODx is not one step, point and click, ready for novice users at this point.  On that note, you will find no one here attempting to force you to use MODx or trying to convince you that MODx is the only option.  You will, however, find a plethora of people who actually want to help you get through the growing pains of learning MODx if you are serious about taking the time to figure out why we speak so highly of this CMS.

-sD-
scotty Delicious

[Smoothie]

As I said, I've been through most CMS's out there, and that's definitely given me a general understanding of what to expect from CMS's in general - what's to be expected from an install, how to generally have a database and server environment all correctly set up, that kind of stuff.  I don't think I needed a readme - simply running an install.php seemed to get the trick done.

Unfortunately, from past experience it can be difficult for a dev to know how a newbie will approach software, and consequently pre-empting all the questions can be extremely difficult and time consuming.  Imagine trying to teach someone to use a computer when they've never used one before and you get the idea - it can be harder to document software than you think.

For the time being, MODx is indeed suited to the more advanced user.  But is that an entirely bad thing?  Personally, I don't think so.  If MODx appealed mainly to newbie users, these forums would be full of people asking the typical newbie questions after not having consulted existing documentation.  Sad, but true.  Instead, there are a few experienced coders, who readily contribute to the community - and surely the community is better off with a few of these, than a million people without a clue (à la PHP-Nuke).

Maybe an elitist view, but when you've been around a while and seen newbies making hundreds of requests of the community when they can't be bothered to learn a little code and do it themselves, you become a little tired of such members of the community.  Personally, I welcome newbies who are willing to read the documentation, get stuck in themselves, and get themselves up to the standard of skill required to get the work done that they need doing.  Creating quality documentation is the key to attracting and catering to this type of user, and this is another area in which MODx is currently progressing very well.

I'm sure the opinions of other members of the MODx community are different and more tolerant, but from a perspective weary of the antics of certain newbie members of other CMS' communities, the MODx community is pretty great as it is.

[Starbuck]

modX and css coders belong together, and that's not some kind of religious fanatical statement it's simply that modX was built with css coders in mind - the problem is the css community, or the heavy hitters, really haven't heard about modX

Who are the heavy hitters? Well - I just happen to keep a list that I'm happy to share

Tantek Celik www.tantek.com
Cameron Adams  www.themaninblue.com
Patrick Lauke (aka redux)  www.splintered.co.uk
Paul O’Brien www.pmob.co.uk
Dan Cederholm www.simplebits.com
Dave Shea www.mezzoblue.com
Jeffrey Zeldman www.zeldman.com
Douglas Bowman www.stopdesign.com
Andy Budd - www.andybudd.com
D. Keith Robinson www.blueflavor.com
Andrei Herasimchuk www.designbyfire.com
Ian ‘hixie’ Hickson   www.ian.hixie.ch
Simon Willison  www.incutio.com
Patrick Griffiths www.htmldog.com
John Gallant  www.positioniseverything.net
Holly Bergevin www.positioniseverything.net
Mike Davidson  www.mikeindustries.com
Christopher Schmitt  www.christopherschmitt.com
Petr Stanicek (Pixy)  www.pixy.cz
John Allsopp  www.johnallsopp.co.uk
Jeremy Keith  www.adactio.com
Simon Collison  www.collylogic.com
Jon Hicks  www.hicksdesign.co.uk
Dunstan Orchard  www.1976design.com
Patrick Griffiths www.htmldog.com
Russ Weakley  www.maxdesign.com.au
John Gallant  www.positioniseverything.net.
Peter Gifford www.universalhead.com
Stu Nicholls.  www.stunicholls.com
Anne van Kesteren   www.annevankesteren.nl
Didier Hilhorst www.nundroo.com
Egor Kloos  www.dutchcelt.nl
Danny Goodman. www.dannyg.com
Aaron Gustafson’s  www.easy-designs.net
Richard Rutter  www.clagnut.com
Blake Scarbrough  www.blakems.com
Cameron Moll www.cameronmoll.com
Jeremy Hedley www.antipixel.com
Daniel Glazman  www.glazman.org
Michelle Goodrich www.mandarindesign.com
Rachel Andrew  www.rachelandrew.co.uk
Kynn Bartlett  www.kynn.com
Eric Costello www.glish.com
Simon Willison www.simon.incutio.com
Peter-Paul Koch www.quirksmode.org
Seamus Leahy www.moronicbajebus.com

[davidm]

Pretty nice list of key influencers... we have them in mind, though we had a shorter list so far. I surely can understand the benefit of rallying even one of those : back in 2004 when I discovered and became involved with Textpattern, John Hicks did a lot to give some reputation to this fairly unknown CMS (another one with CSS coders in mind, BTW )

We definitely have to make a move toward those now that MODx has matured, part of why Ryan started posting @Stylegala, and I did too and will increase our presence there (Sitepoint is another place I roam... if you have suggestion about other designers packed forums, I'd be glad !)

Anyway, thanks a lot for this list

[Starbuck]

Sitepoint's littered with newbies, if you can get Paul O'Brien's seal of approval you'd be off to a good start - I'm sure most on the list will be happy to help out . ... ummm, I feel a book coming on

I hope you have plenty of bandwidth for the months ahead 

[rthrash]

Holly and John are good friends of mine (PIE.net), and I've chatted with several of the other folks on the list. I'll be ready to start trying to get their attention after the next release. Anyone have first-name relationships with any of the others?