Internet Explorer 8 to finally be standards-compliant?

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[ZAP]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1057&tag=nl.e539

I sure hope that it's true and not just a marketing/legal defense strategy...

[dev_cw]

I read the same news this morning. I hope it is true and that IE8 doesn't take forever to be released and adopted. When it comes to MicroSoft it may not be the time to celebrate just yet 

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/12/19/internet-explorer-8-and-acid2-a-milestone.aspx

[Pikachu]

I read it too, interesting ! But we'll have to wait for the end of 2008 :s

[ZAP]

The beta is supposed to be released in the first half of 2008. But even if that happens, it'll probably be months before the final version comes out. And then we'll need to wait years before all those IE6 die-hards finally give up the ghost (let alone those who use IE7).

[Pikachu]

[begin Off-Topic]
The worst is that you're right !
I just have been asked (2 weeks ago) to change my IE6 to IE7 (genuine Windows XP, moreover). And it's been months IE7 exists ! Maybe in 10 years, people will abandon IE5
[end Off-Topic]

[Dr. Scotty Delicious]

I'll believe it when I see it 

To Microsoft's credit, they have been aware of their non-compliance for some time now and although it is pure hackery, providing us with conditional comments is a great tool as it keeps my pages valid XHTML while still letting me add style and structural elements to make my pages look as beautiful in IE as they do in good browsers.

<rant: begin>
    The root of the problem will still exist (people will use whatever comes on their PC) until Microsoft is forbidden from bundling IE with their OS. That is the only real solution, but unfortunately, they (Microsoft) are under the mistaken impression that their browser is something other than sub-standard, amateur quality rubbish.
</rant>

-sD-
Dr. Scotty Delicious, DFPA.

[ZAP]

I know that it's a heretical idea, but I actually think that IE7 is a perfectly good browser. I don't use Windows anymore, but when I did I used IE7 more often than Firefox. IE6 is an oozing pustule on the fetid arse of the internet, but IE7 works well enough.

[OpenGeek]

Ha, I won't disagree with you, as I truly only ever open it to test sites (never for pleasure), but I do believe that anyone who thinks IE 7 is a "perfectly good browser" should not be allowed to consider themselves a heretic.  There is just too much honor in the long tradition of heretical thought to allow you to attribute them to this idea.  Imagine the peasants thanking King Arthur rather than yelling, "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"  Oh, the horror...
 
But just one man's opinion... 

[ZAP]

Context is everything, and in my context I can assure you that is a heretical opinion. Nowhere near as heretical as the rest of my beliefs, but it does provoke reflexive negative reactions from those around me. One can be heretical within a certain subculture or limited environment (say a child within a family that belongs to a marginalized religious cult), even if the ideas that make you so in that context would be reflexively accepted in a different one.

I find that I'm usually considered a heretic in any context, which either makes me an independent thinker or an ornery argumentative bastard (depending upon your point of view).

But of course I neglected to mention that in order to use Internet Explorer 7 you first have to be running Windows, which is certainly not a perfectly good operating system (for many reasons that are probably not worth listing). Well, you can kinda sorta run it in Linux, but that's not how most people use it. And that's essentially the original sin of the tech world, and not even Saint Ubuntu can absolve you of that.

[sottwell]

Not only do you have to be running Windows, but you have to be running XP or better (well, if you consider Vista as "better"). I have an ancient (legal) copy of Windows98 that works fine for my purposes, but it can't do IE 7.

[BobRay]

Coming from a long line of heretics, I think I should have some standing in this discussion.

I'm declaring Sottwell as the most heretical for suggesting that Windows 98 "works fine" for any purpose at all.

Bob 

[splittingred]

I know that it's a heretical idea, but I actually think that IE7 is a perfectly good browser. I don't use Windows anymore, but when I did I used IE7 more often than Firefox. IE6 is an oozing pustule on the fetid arse of the internet, but IE7 works well enough.

I won't consider IE a good browser until they fix a ton more issues, including:

• No HTML in XML (huge problem)
• the infamous application/xhtml+xml issue
• still no support for the the lang attribute
• anchor names are not treated in a case-sensitive manner
• table alignment attributes near impossible to use consistently
• horrid 508 support
• no tabindex interface support
• a ton of css issues
• absolutely atrocious javascript implementations. including unspeakably bad (virtually non-existent) error reporting

[Raith Krace]

You're right, but take into account that the average idiot doesn't know what those things even mean, and issues such as "Uhh.. Why does the text look funny in Firefox" are key in choosing a browser. Not every surfer has 3+ browsers installed on his PC and the fact is that people would spend hefty sums in buying antivirus software that has features helping everyday browsing, but won't upgrade or change the browser they're using. IE7 is a very good browser in comparison with IE6, unless you find having 20+ windows with poker tables and naked women every time you open up IE. 

I hope IE8 will have a better error checking software and an improved phishing filter, because the present one is a total nag.

[SimonMW]

I'd like to know why web designers haven't just clubbed together to ignore IE6. If all the websites in the world were designed such that they only worked in better browsers (and I do reluctantly include IE7 in that just because it is at least better than IE6) then people would have to change to something better.

Trouble is many people who use computers don't even know that IE is the program that they use to browse the web! Many think that it is just part of Windows and that there isn't an alternative. I've been in the room with people who don't know much about computers and they have seen the Get Firefox logos on websites, but don't know what it is, because a lot of them don't know what a browser is even though they use one every single day!

Some people even mistrust such adverts. Because of the risk of viruses, even though many people are slack in this department, they won't follow up something like a Firefox or Opera link because they wonder if it is dodgy software.

Microsoft really need to be stopped from bundling IE with Windows so that the choices are more open. With all the hacks needed to get things working with IE and other headaches, it costs businesses money (their websites take longer to make) and website creators are less productive. There really needs to be a backlash against IE for something to happen.

It is also annoying that even though there are still a lot of IE6 users out there, web designers need two separate PC's to have IE6 and 7 on! I only do website creation as more of a hobby. But I don't have multiple machines to be able to test all versions of IE on. So a lot of the time I just have to hope!

Older versions of Windows may not be able to use IE7, but they can use Firefox, Opera etc. But there needs to be a better way to educate people who are sticking with IE6.

[ZAP]

I would love to ignore IE6, but our clients wouldn't be very happy about it. About a third of the users of most of our sites still use IE6, and that's too big of a percentage to ignore, unfortunately. Hopefully by the end of 2008 we'll be able to make the argument that it's no longer worth supporting and people should be forced to upgrade for security and compatibility reasons, but for now the volume of complaints we would get over our "broken" websites would be more trouble than our clients would be willing to bear.

Apparently IE7 will be available without the WGA check for at least corporate versions of Windows soon (and bundled with SP3 for XP), which may help to move a substantial chunk of IE6 users up a notch.

At least we don't have to take Netscape and AOL into account anymore!