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[OpenGeek]

I use Drupal now because Modx is just not developed enough, Drupal is where Modx should be IMHO.  I would prefer using Modx, but unfortunately it's just not a complete CMS unless you are a programmer.  It should be called the CMS for programers.  Other CMS like Wordpress and Drupal and Joomla are already 20 light years ahead of Modx.   What I find interesting about Modx is that it's a futuristic state of the art application, yet it's so far behind the times when compared to the current CMS solutions.

Try programming custom features on one of those systems.  It just plain makes you want to quit using computers (IMHO).  So yes, MODx is designed by and for PHP web developers who felt limited by what these more "mature" systems impose on them.  Wordpress is not a CMS.  And how is MODx futuristic yet so far behind the times at the same instant?  You don't make much sense here and honestly sound like you had no reason to post other than to bash us, but if MODx isn't for you, well, there's Wordpress, Drupal, and Joomla to keep you happy, right?

Sounds to me like you just wish more people developed generic add-ons for MODx that you could use without having to do any development.  This market is for the traditional CMS players like Drupal and Joomla to compete for; MODx likely will not enter that market directly, and if we do it will be once the code and ideas evolve a little more.  Our system is quite a bit younger than these other systems, does not have nearly the developer base (yet), and is targeted at web professionals who want to deploy custom CMS-empowered web applications on a lightweight framework that does not dictate how everything is to be done.

[bunk58]

I'll point out what the founding fathers will.
It's a CMF not a CMS the difference being F for Framework rather than S for System.
To me it means it's more flexible but doesn't offer every one an out of the box type solution.
Just my two cents worth.

[therebechips]

@gspark

It should be called the CMS for programers

Maybe. MODx doesn't do everything out of the box like Drupal, rather it gives you powerful toolkit that takes a bit of thought to use. I tend to use it as a sort of framework with a GUI (I know the core devs would disagree with it being described as a framework, but I think it's part of a new class of CMSs like Silverstripe and Expression Engine - essentially they are evolving as RAD toolkits).

Other CMS like Wordpress and Drupal and Joomla are already 20 light years ahead of Modx

Now that's just not true. WP is a superb blogging tool, and Drupal and Joomla are the leading examples of the old school approach to CMS and are great for community type sites. But I'd choose MODx every time when appropriate, because it's such a rewarding system to work with.

[ChuckTrukk]

I have sometimes felt the same way as gspark. Especially when I'm trying to learn a new snippet like MaxiGallery, WebloginPE. It seems so easy just to add a module for Drupal (like views or panels which are really really cool). But I got into really customizing the output for that module- whoa! It could not suck less.

One of the best things about a website is the small attention to details. And that is where Joomla and Drupal suffer. You can easily edit their pre-defined css, and you can edit the default layout. But d@mn its a pain. So I keep coming back to MODx - Im addicted to the easy, custom freedom it provides.

However, Drupal is a great system (esp. for community sites). And to each his own.

[Sylvaticus]

I actually love Joomla. For it's use. And I used it from the very beginning, just after splitting from Mambo. But I will never go back to it. Because I love MODx so much more! The flexibility in the way I can do the thing I need. For my part some of the fun is to find out howe to use Ditto, Wayfinder, Jot, eForm and som other modules and plugins in a way that would take tens of modules and components in Joomla to do the same. And I can design everything the way I want.

I still have a couple of sites in Joomla, and they run well, but they will be converted to MODx as soon as I have the time.

Both Joomla and Drupal are great systems. But for me, MODx is lightyears ahead! Why play with a premade plastictoy when you can build in Lego.  (Ehmm  )

[dev_cw]

Both Joomla and Drupal are great systems. But for me, MODx is lightyears ahead! Why play with a premade plastictoy when you can build in Lego.  (Ehmm )

Well said, my sentiment exactly 

[tcochran]

I'm a recent convert to ModX, after developing several sites in PostNuke and one in Drupal.

The simplicity of setting up a site in ModX is what attracted me to it.  With PostNuke, it's common to hack the basic code in order to get it to do what you want -- and with Drupal, you've got to master their taxonomy model before you can move forward much at all.

With ModX, though, it's a simple matter of straight-forward templates with HTML chunks and PHP snippets, all controlled by CSS. Table-less design which validates immediately -- now there's a concept!

[davidm]

In fact it's been the concept from day one !

And once you're used to it, you hardly ever go back to anything else really...

[ChuckTrukk]

I was thinking a little more about what makes MODx a better solution (most of the time) to Drupal. Drupal does have TV like objects through CCK. And it has individual modules to create TV images or Amazon ISBN. But you need to install these modules and each one comes adds more and more weight to the runtime process. Like I said, after installing all the needed modules, I had to increase my MAMP server to 64MB- way more than can be used on shared setting.

MODx has the TV's built in. You can use snippets, widgets, or PHx to modify the ouput to (ASIN, etc)

[bwente]

I just got thrown a drupal site. UUUGGGHHH! What a mess. I do like CCK and Views. There are some other "specialty" modules that the client needs, so no modx for now. But I wish that new TV's types could be easily added like CCK modules are. I wouldn't mind a color picker or image thumbnail on the edit page.

[ChuckTrukk]

bwente,

I think right now the key to that is using managermanager to create the custom tv look. He's working on making tv 'widgets' an easier possibility. But I agree it would be great if we default tv widgets would be expandable.

[1kenthomas]

First,  I have nothing against MODX.  I know next to nothing against MODX.  I wouldn't mind learning a little,  but time is a limited commodity,  and I've learned next to nothing from this thread.

Additionally,  "if I had a dime" for every anonymous coward ("troll") who compares a budding CMS to Drupal ("trashes Drupal") by beginning with the equivalent of the false logic "I hate... to be harsh... BUT (what I say is true because)...  for 25 years... I've programmed kernels... and been a software and etc architect,"  I'd be rich.

I thus place this thread under the RUBRIC:
SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!


OTHER COMMENTS:
OP makes unsubstantiated claims on the architectural and security features of Drupal vs. MODX.  While comments about "too many cooks" etc may be in the same continent as the ballpark,  comments display a) an evident gross lack of high-level systems analysis of Drupal vs. MODX,  and b) likely relative ignorance of OS-level systems architectural considerations.  OP seems unqualified to make these assertions.
In particular:  1) being a "good route" or "option" for "PHP site developers" is not necessarily a positive recommendation.  2) MODX seems to lack the high-level systems architecture "framework" aspects,  as well as the long-term development "roadmap" sophistication,  of Drupal.

IN GENERAL:  Increasing fragmentation,  trivialization and separation of knowledge systems is bad;  developing co-operation,  convergence and synergies is good.  Thus if anyone here wishes to discuss the MODX pathways and lessons in relation to Drupal,  rather than engage in "we're the best" ...

Kenneth THOMAS  (<-- on his way to bed)

[lossendae]

Hello Kenneth,

How could you say so surely that MODx lack the high-level systems architecture "framework" aspects, as well as the long-term development "roadmap" sophistication, of Drupal, while saying in the beginning of your post that you know next to nothing against MODx.

If you have time to spare, we'll surely welcome any thoughts concerning those subjects.

[therebechips]

1) being a "good route" or "option" for "PHP site developers" is not necessarily a positive recommendation.

It's entirely subjective. The general point is that php developers are able to exploit modx as a web application framework and go beyond traditional content management. Some people may like that and some may not - horses for courses.

2) MODX seems to lack the high-level systems architecture "framework" aspects, as well as the long-term development "roadmap" sophistication,  of Drupal.

Not so. Have you even seen the api? The new revo codebase is an object orientated MVC framework built on top of the xPDO ORM. It's a very carefully considered system that has taken many years of effort by the core devs and modx community (and for which I am very thankful). See:
http://svn.modxcms.com/docs/display/revolution/MODx+Revolution

Modx is a different beast from Drupal that's for sure, but I wouldn't say that one is more 'sophisticated' than the other. That's just silly.

[sottwell]

It's certainly the best of recommendations for me. I've had more than enough "what you get is what the developer thinks you need" limitations in other point-and-click, drag-and-drop applications both web and desktop.

I'm strongly reminded of a trained chicken I once saw as a child at Knott's Berry Farm in California. It had a little 4-key keyboard on which to peck out a simple tune. When it got the tune right, a pellet of food was released. Watching it was amusing for about 30 seconds. I'm not a trained chicken.

[netdoctor]

I just converted three drupal sites to modx and am finally not a slave to endless updates, broken modules, hard coded html in code, css rules a mile long, and general broken modules. Breadcrumbs come to mind, still broken in version 6x.

My clients are happy that I have increased their ranking in the SERPS and no longer blow the site maintenance  budget on the above and instead  invest the client money creating a better user experience.

I think Drupal is the tool,  when it comes to a social site with lots user generated content. Other than that it sucks.  Don't even get me started on Joomla.

Modx serves 99% of the site specifications my clients actually need and want. A CMS that allows them to create content, organize it easily, add custom features when needed, and allows for semantic code that search engines love. Oh yea, and menus that allow for almost infinite customization (thanks to Wayfinder). 

 I want to drive a CMS and Modx lets me.  Sure it would be nice to have a CCK and workflow/revision features, but the truth is most sites don't need them. The more you get your head around what you can do in Evo or Revo the more you realize the power at your command.  The key is to focus on what the client / project needs. Not what features one solution has over another. Comparing CMS's is like comparing cars.

After 12 years of working with various CMS's,  I am very happy to have found Modx. I am now working on my understanding  of Revolution and the new API so I can solve even more client problems.  So cheers to the crew that has endeavored long and hard to empower us. If your reading this, I owe you one.

Maybe I can start a 1% for the Crew campaign. Hmm.

[splittingred]

After 12 years of working with various CMS's,  I am very happy to have found Modx. I am now working on my understanding  of Revolution and the new API so I can solve even more client problems.  So cheers to the crew that has endeavored long and hard to empower us. If your reading this, I owe you one.

We wouldn't be here if it wasnt for the community. This, and will be, a community-driven project. Thats one of the main things I love about MODx.

Maybe I can start a 1% for the Crew campaign. Hmm.

I can tell you we'd love that. 1% to MODx ftw.

[stephenwh]

hmmm...

Well, we are technically a Silver Partner at Acquia - although we've decided to pull out from the program.  Been designing and developing on Drupal since 2007 - and while we will still do drupal projects if it becomes a requirement (our corporate site will remain on drupal for the foreseeable future since we have a lot of time invested in it), after looking at modx, we've pretty much decided to start using it almost exclusively going forward.  Will probably use evolution for the next project and then jump on the revolution bandwagon as soon as it looks like major functionality is done - and like any good user of open source software if our clients are happy we will donate what we can...

Big decision for us.  Huge.  

This decision is driven by design and the need for design flexibility more than anything.  That - coupled with the ability in revolution to give the client a custom and branded backend - to me makes any extra effort and expense on the added development in modx worth it.  I can barely sit still sitting here thinking that I get to go back to doing css and xhtml the right way again, instead of going into drupal - setting something up - going back to the css and styling that, going back into drupal, creating something, going back into the css to style that...etc.  It gets old.  

Drupal is a great system and we founded around the idea of using it exclusively - but there are things that turned us off and had us decide not to put all our eggs in that basket anymore:

1.  Acquia's business model - with the VC money, they want to be a one stop shop for everything drupal.  The message to partners is "we only focus on the high end of the market".  The "you can have the left over crumbs" approach - really turned us off.  Also, in the beginning we were one of like 15 partners total - now there have to be what, like over a hundred?  We are lost in a sea of providers over there.  There is something very Microsoft about how Acquia is inserting itself into the drupal community, and we grew tired of always having to explain to our clients that they should use us for hosting and development and go to Acquia for everything else (like support and expertise).

2.  Constant updates and releases - as a provider that hosts sites with a low volume/high performance model, we just plain got tired of a new release of Acquia Drupal every two weeks - and using subversion to update production systems doesn't cut it, upgrades need to be tested.  We feel like Acquia doesn't get what it means to run a production hosting environment - you can't keep blindly updating code every two weeks - this is the very basic weakness of drupal - with the modules coming from all over the place, the code isn't managed properly, and he get beat over the head with constant releases.  And the upgrade process is horrible - take down site - uncheck non-acquia modules - upgrade - pray - re-enable non-acquia modules - pray.

3.  Broken modules - this to me is the worst.  You rely on a module and it can break the entire site.  Once that happens, you spend hours and hours trying to find the fix - now here is where you need to buy a professional support contract from Acquia so they can "save you" from these hours.  Sorry to sound so cynical - but we run our own servers, there is something inherently wrong with the idea that some venture capital behemoth needs to insert themselves between us and open source code, we are supposed to be the experts.  I had one client rightly ask me "well, why don't I just work directly with Acquia?" - then we have to do this tap dance about who does what...

4.  Drupal is associated with really crummy design.  Most drupal sites out there are not pretty, and some are down right ugly.  There also does not really seem to be all that much concern about that.  You come to this site and you see great design everywhere you look, and that is what clients want, more than anything.  A 20k investment into something that is super robust and has all kinds of whiz bang modules (drupal) means nothing to our clients - something that is well designed and differentiates them is far more important.  The drupal community at large, and to a certain extent Acquia, to me don't seem to get that.  It's all about "themes" - and frankly, 90% of CC themes are really bad visually.

5.  This one really takes the cake - Acquia isn't even on their own code!  Their site is still on the 5.x pre-acquia drupal code base - I mean, if you can't even run your own software....well...5.x to 6.x to 7.x - a real mess.  


I agree Drupal is a great choice for large community driven sites - but in the end - only for projects that have no significant budget and no real ambitions for design, and then you get a site that looks rather dull and bland, and not surprisingly like every other drupal site our there . From a creative agency perspective - Drupal and Acquia Drupal have become sort of the "slap it together as fast as you can" approach to web development and as such we've decided to only use it sparingly if at all...

For well designed, highly customized, solutions - for us modx is the ticket...(as of about 48 hours ago)  

[sottwell]

Then you are going to love Revolution!

[Lammikko]

Many thanks stephenwh for sharing your experiences! I enjoyed reading them very much, gives me more leverage to advertise MODx to my possible clients (using Drupal for now).